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Police overhaul will make little difference

1:14am Saturday 9th February 2008

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A REPORT proposing a radical overhaul of police forces should not have a huge impact on West Mercia Constabulary, according to Worcester's Labour MP Mike Foster.

A 124-page review on policing by Chief Inspector of Constabulary Sir Ronnie Flanagan claims the current level of police officers in England and Wales is not "sustainable" and recommends employing more civilian staff to do administration jobs.

It has raised fears that rural forces like West Mercia could see a cut in funding and fewer front-line officers.

Mr Foster said West Mercia was one of the most highly civilianised forces in the country.

"I think staffing levels in West Mercia will remain as they are or somewhat higher," he said.

"The whole idea of this is to put more police officers on the front line."

However Peter Luff, Conservative MP for Mid-Worcestershire, said he would be monitoring the situation closely and said he would be "appalled" if there were cuts.

"We are a rural low crime area and I want to keep it low crime," he said.

"We are already one of the worst-funded police authorities in the country, but if they were going to cut resources more it would really be a huge challenge."

West Mercia currently employs 2,487 police officers and 1,852 civilian staff.

Paul Deneen, chairman of West Mercia's Police Authority, said the authority was looking at the report and would give its response at its meeting on Tuesday, February 19.

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Your Say Your Worcester

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
2:43am Sat 9 Feb 08

The only way to get more officers on the streets is to cut the ridiculous beauraucracy currently government aND management driven. We front-line officers seem to only exist to provide figures and statistics for the anal ysts and number crunchers, jobs for the CPS (Clown Prosecution Service / Can't Prosecute Sorry!). We spend so much time duplicating totally unnecessary paperwork. A few years ago - we did have it reduce to simple files, quick prosecutions. Then the sky fell in and unless there's a radical change and the views of the ground level police officers sought and acted upon - we're all doomed !!!!

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
2:43am Sat 9 Feb 08

The only way to get more officers on the streets is to cut the ridiculous beauraucracy currently government aND management driven. We front-line officers seem to only exist to provide figures and statistics for the anal ysts and number crunchers, jobs for the CPS (Clown Prosecution Service / Can't Prosecute Sorry!). We spend so much time duplicating totally unnecessary paperwork. A few years ago - we did have it reduce to simple files, quick prosecutions. Then the sky fell in and unless there's a radical change and the views of the ground level police officers sought and acted upon - we're all doomed !!!!

Report this post »

Ricpop, Powick says...
6:36am Sat 9 Feb 08

Sadly all the man in the street can see is a Police Force who endorces his insurance claim, occasionally turns up if he has a car accident or books him for speeding. Police no longer take a positive roll in Crime prevention, their wings have been clipped by beauraucracy and incompetent management

Report this post »

Ricpop, Powick says...
6:36am Sat 9 Feb 08

Sadly all the man in the street can see is a Police Force who endorces his insurance claim, occasionally turns up if he has a car accident or books him for speeding. Police no longer take a positive roll in Crime prevention, their wings have been clipped by beauraucracy and incompetent management

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
1:52pm Sat 9 Feb 08

The current level of police officers on the street would shock local citizens!!!

If you were to inquire under the Freedom of Information Act as to how many officers were actually on, covering your towns and cities - you'd be outraged - sometimes you'd only have 6 covering the streets for the whole of Worcester City (not just the centre) - overnight - at weekends!!!

There would be others in the outlying towns but these are at a minimum too.

PS Don't tell the criminals!

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
1:52pm Sat 9 Feb 08

The current level of police officers on the street would shock local citizens!!!

If you were to inquire under the Freedom of Information Act as to how many officers were actually on, covering your towns and cities - you'd be outraged - sometimes you'd only have 6 covering the streets for the whole of Worcester City (not just the centre) - overnight - at weekends!!!

There would be others in the outlying towns but these are at a minimum too.

PS Don't tell the criminals!

Report this post »

Alan2, Worcester says...
2:36pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Hotfuzz - you sound like the typical disgruntled, disloyal barrack room lawyer and canteen cowboy.
It was weak, sociologically, liberally inclined senior Police Officers without an ounce of "command and leadership" skills but oodles of soft and addled "management" abilities and the determination to allow the "ground level" officers to virtually run the way they do things with little or no supervision that has brought the Police Force to it's present immpotent state.
Your "blog" is a good example of the deterioration in the discipline in the force. In the days of a real Police Force, your real name and number not the psuedonym "hotfuzz" would have been identified and you my friend would have found yourself, rightly out of a job before you could send another. Indiscipline and disloyalty to your fellow officers in the extreme.
The Ronnie Flanagans of this world and the rest of the HMIs are a self perpetuating disaster for the force, they themselves have all the irrelevant University degrees under the sun and barely any on street operational experience before they were sent on courses to fit them for the next rank and climbing up the tree which ensured that they were overpromoted and underexperienced. Then they pass their weird ideas down to the likes of yourself and so it goes on.
I am not surprised though, I have seen the Police degenerate in something like Fred Karnos for the past 20 odd years.

Report this post »

Alan2, Worcester says...
2:36pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Hotfuzz - you sound like the typical disgruntled, disloyal barrack room lawyer and canteen cowboy.
It was weak, sociologically, liberally inclined senior Police Officers without an ounce of "command and leadership" skills but oodles of soft and addled "management" abilities and the determination to allow the "ground level" officers to virtually run the way they do things with little or no supervision that has brought the Police Force to it's present immpotent state.
Your "blog" is a good example of the deterioration in the discipline in the force. In the days of a real Police Force, your real name and number not the psuedonym "hotfuzz" would have been identified and you my friend would have found yourself, rightly out of a job before you could send another. Indiscipline and disloyalty to your fellow officers in the extreme.
The Ronnie Flanagans of this world and the rest of the HMIs are a self perpetuating disaster for the force, they themselves have all the irrelevant University degrees under the sun and barely any on street operational experience before they were sent on courses to fit them for the next rank and climbing up the tree which ensured that they were overpromoted and underexperienced. Then they pass their weird ideas down to the likes of yourself and so it goes on.
I am not surprised though, I have seen the Police degenerate in something like Fred Karnos for the past 20 odd years.

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
3:10pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Alan2 I suggest that you get an adult to read your diatribe before you post it in future.

You seem to misunderstand completely a) What I'm saying and b)The situation - the current impotent (correct spelling) state has certainly been brought about over the last 20 years by self-serving supervisory officers who have not stood up to the ridiculous Government impositions which has gone a long way to bringing about this impotence.
weak, sociologically, liberally inclined senior Police Officers without an ounce of "command and leadership"
there certainly areBUT. The frontline officers are taking the brunt of it all.
They want to provide a proper service (which is why most join) - but are frustrated, disillusioned and many of the new entrants soon leave - this leaves a dearth of proper policing experience - this low level of experience then goes on to early promotion and the whole situation is becoming totally self-defeating. And who suffers - the community!.

PS I am not
your friend

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
3:10pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Alan2 I suggest that you get an adult to read your diatribe before you post it in future.

You seem to misunderstand completely a) What I'm saying and b)The situation - the current impotent (correct spelling) state has certainly been brought about over the last 20 years by self-serving supervisory officers who have not stood up to the ridiculous Government impositions which has gone a long way to bringing about this impotence.
weak, sociologically, liberally inclined senior Police Officers without an ounce of "command and leadership"
there certainly areBUT. The frontline officers are taking the brunt of it all.
They want to provide a proper service (which is why most join) - but are frustrated, disillusioned and many of the new entrants soon leave - this leaves a dearth of proper policing experience - this low level of experience then goes on to early promotion and the whole situation is becoming totally self-defeating. And who suffers - the community!.

PS I am not
your friend

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
3:11pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Alan2 I suggest that you get an adult to read your diatribe before you post it in future.

You seem to misunderstand completely a) What I'm saying and b)The situation - the current impotent (correct spelling) state has certainly been brought about over the last 20 years by self-serving supervisory officers who have not stood up to the ridiculous Government impositions which has gone a long way to bringing about this impotence.
weak, sociologically, liberally inclined senior Police Officers without an ounce of "command and leadership"
there certainly areBUT. The frontline officers are taking the brunt of it all.
They want to provide a proper service (which is why most join) - but are frustrated, disillusioned and many of the new entrants soon leave - this leaves a dearth of proper policing experience - this low level of experience then goes on to early promotion and the whole situation is becoming totally self-defeating. And who suffers - the community!.

PS I am not
your friend

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
3:11pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Alan2 I suggest that you get an adult to read your diatribe before you post it in future.

You seem to misunderstand completely a) What I'm saying and b)The situation - the current impotent (correct spelling) state has certainly been brought about over the last 20 years by self-serving supervisory officers who have not stood up to the ridiculous Government impositions which has gone a long way to bringing about this impotence.
weak, sociologically, liberally inclined senior Police Officers without an ounce of "command and leadership"
there certainly areBUT. The frontline officers are taking the brunt of it all.
They want to provide a proper service (which is why most join) - but are frustrated, disillusioned and many of the new entrants soon leave - this leaves a dearth of proper policing experience - this low level of experience then goes on to early promotion and the whole situation is becoming totally self-defeating. And who suffers - the community!.

PS I am not
your friend

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
3:16pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Oh - and by the way 'Alan2' - would you have used your Masonic influence to identify me ????

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
3:16pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Oh - and by the way 'Alan2' - would you have used your Masonic influence to identify me ????

Report this post »

Alan2, Worcester says...
3:51pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Your blog merely indicates to the long suffering public what depths the Police have sunk to in the recruitment process. The real Police were taught to maintain their dignity, not to get rattled, not to be childish and not to "blow the gaff" on sensitive issues like operational cover at night. (Yes I kept my finger to long on the mmmm - impotent). Grow up.
I am a Catholic if that means anything to you with regard to Masonry. If I was a copper at Stourport though, I would have known you as your mates already probably do, they wouldn't need to enquire with the WN who hotfuzz was you would stick out like a sore thumb.
What a pity, you allow the public to read this sort of thing from a copper. I hope you are proud.

Report this post »

Alan2, Worcester says...
3:51pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Your blog merely indicates to the long suffering public what depths the Police have sunk to in the recruitment process. The real Police were taught to maintain their dignity, not to get rattled, not to be childish and not to "blow the gaff" on sensitive issues like operational cover at night. (Yes I kept my finger to long on the mmmm - impotent). Grow up.
I am a Catholic if that means anything to you with regard to Masonry. If I was a copper at Stourport though, I would have known you as your mates already probably do, they wouldn't need to enquire with the WN who hotfuzz was you would stick out like a sore thumb.
What a pity, you allow the public to read this sort of thing from a copper. I hope you are proud.

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
4:12pm Sat 9 Feb 08

'Alan2'
There you go - making all sorts of wild assumptions!! I hope you made a better job of it in your previous career because you are sooooo wide of the mark!!

Curiously - why are you concerned about
not to "blow the gaff" on sensitive issues like operational cover at night.

You should be concerned about it - not want to cover it up - the general public should know what they get for their money - then things might improve!!!

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
4:12pm Sat 9 Feb 08

'Alan2'
There you go - making all sorts of wild assumptions!! I hope you made a better job of it in your previous career because you are sooooo wide of the mark!!

Curiously - why are you concerned about
not to "blow the gaff" on sensitive issues like operational cover at night.

You should be concerned about it - not want to cover it up - the general public should know what they get for their money - then things might improve!!!

Report this post »

fuji, Worcester says...
10:12pm Sat 9 Feb 08

I am sad to read that what I would hope are 2 well informed and hopefully otherwise-effective members of our police who are spending time (and I hope not work time)to produce such a shameful exchange as this. Why can you both not actually contribute to suggesting tangible, practical ways that the force can use to address and alleviate real bureaucracy in areas of greatest need? Do either of you actually know what can and cannot be changed? If so, I would urge you to make contact with someone who can take your ideas forward - not sit at your computers spouting off and indulging in vitriol. Not Professional, in my opinion. Can you try being part of the solution instead of perpetuating the problem?

Report this post »

fuji, Worcester says...
10:12pm Sat 9 Feb 08

I am sad to read that what I would hope are 2 well informed and hopefully otherwise-effective members of our police who are spending time (and I hope not work time)to produce such a shameful exchange as this. Why can you both not actually contribute to suggesting tangible, practical ways that the force can use to address and alleviate real bureaucracy in areas of greatest need? Do either of you actually know what can and cannot be changed? If so, I would urge you to make contact with someone who can take your ideas forward - not sit at your computers spouting off and indulging in vitriol. Not Professional, in my opinion. Can you try being part of the solution instead of perpetuating the problem?

Report this post »

Logik, worcester says...
10:47pm Sat 9 Feb 08

I think this goes to show the type of persons the Police Force attracts these days.

Very unprofessional in my view.

Report this post »

Logik, worcester says...
10:47pm Sat 9 Feb 08

I think this goes to show the type of persons the Police Force attracts these days.

Very unprofessional in my view.

Report this post »

fuji, Worcester says...
11:13pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Without wishing to detract from your latter sentiment, Logik, I would wish to offer that the police in West Mercia do attract highly professional and dedicated people who work extremely hard to ensure the people of Worcestershire, Herefordshire and Shropshire have one of the very best policing services anywhere in the country. I am proud the vast majority. I think that is what makes the previous comments all the more poignant, particulary as they denigrate the real issues. Perhaps more significantly, they say nothing of the standards that we all rightly expect from our police.

Report this post »

fuji, Worcester says...
11:13pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Without wishing to detract from your latter sentiment, Logik, I would wish to offer that the police in West Mercia do attract highly professional and dedicated people who work extremely hard to ensure the people of Worcestershire, Herefordshire and Shropshire have one of the very best policing services anywhere in the country. I am proud the vast majority. I think that is what makes the previous comments all the more poignant, particulary as they denigrate the real issues. Perhaps more significantly, they say nothing of the standards that we all rightly expect from our police.

Report this post »

Logik, worcester says...
11:47pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Fuji, you know what they say about one bad apple...

Report this post »

Logik, worcester says...
11:47pm Sat 9 Feb 08

Fuji, you know what they say about one bad apple...

Report this post »

Alan2, Worcester says...
12:32am Sun 10 Feb 08

Fuji - wrong assumption. I am not and never have been a Police Officer albeit I have many connections with the force and know as much about it as this officer - and you if you are one.
Considering that I retired from my work over 15 years ago I don't think that you can accuse me of working in Police time therefore.
Yes, this was a disgraceful exchange brought about by a serving officer who
- contrary to Police Discipline Regulations put out the sort of garbage that he has.
I have no idea whether you are a serving officer or what you are - if West Mercia are one of the best, god forbid what one of the worst are like, speak to those that have experienced "their service". Space doesn't permit me to spell it out chapter and verse.
You should also have heard "Hard Talk" this evening on BBC 24 with David Paddick - the British public have reasons to realy worry over the way the Police are going, in fact Andrew McNeil said that the Police have lost the ability to Police except for the "big set pieces". I also strongly believe that .
The Police have totally lost the plot and it has questionable ability with regard to recruitment if hotfuzz is an example of professionalism.

Report this post »

Alan2, Worcester says...
12:32am Sun 10 Feb 08

Fuji - wrong assumption. I am not and never have been a Police Officer albeit I have many connections with the force and know as much about it as this officer - and you if you are one.
Considering that I retired from my work over 15 years ago I don't think that you can accuse me of working in Police time therefore.
Yes, this was a disgraceful exchange brought about by a serving officer who
- contrary to Police Discipline Regulations put out the sort of garbage that he has.
I have no idea whether you are a serving officer or what you are - if West Mercia are one of the best, god forbid what one of the worst are like, speak to those that have experienced "their service". Space doesn't permit me to spell it out chapter and verse.
You should also have heard "Hard Talk" this evening on BBC 24 with David Paddick - the British public have reasons to realy worry over the way the Police are going, in fact Andrew McNeil said that the Police have lost the ability to Police except for the "big set pieces". I also strongly believe that .
The Police have totally lost the plot and it has questionable ability with regard to recruitment if hotfuzz is an example of professionalism.

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
8:30am Wed 13 Feb 08

So - Alan2 has never been a police officer, has been retired for 15 years - but has 'connections' with the force.
Sounds like a real up-to-date and informed viewpoint!!! (not).

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
8:30am Wed 13 Feb 08

So - Alan2 has never been a police officer, has been retired for 15 years - but has 'connections' with the force.
Sounds like a real up-to-date and informed viewpoint!!! (not).

Report this post »

Alan2, Worcester says...
7:14pm Wed 13 Feb 08

What do you want to know hotfuzz, law, know it word perfect,(you don't), court procedure, know as much as a court clerk (you don't).
Police Discipline Code, know every offence - you obviously don't, PACE, bet I know it better than you. All the legal criminal procedures and precedents, know them better than you. Do you want me to go on.
If you want helping out at anytime, just try me on this blog.
One doesn't need a "real up to date and informed viewpoint !!!" to identify a Police wide boy when one is confronted with one.
Now why don't you be like a good Police boy and act like one.

Report this post »

Alan2, Worcester says...
7:14pm Wed 13 Feb 08

What do you want to know hotfuzz, law, know it word perfect,(you don't), court procedure, know as much as a court clerk (you don't).
Police Discipline Code, know every offence - you obviously don't, PACE, bet I know it better than you. All the legal criminal procedures and precedents, know them better than you. Do you want me to go on.
If you want helping out at anytime, just try me on this blog.
One doesn't need a "real up to date and informed viewpoint !!!" to identify a Police wide boy when one is confronted with one.
Now why don't you be like a good Police boy and act like one.

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
10:54pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Wow Alan2 - you know everything about everything!

Report this post »

hotfuzz, Stourport says...
10:54pm Wed 13 Feb 08

Wow Alan2 - you know everything about everything!

Report this post »

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