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Do you really believe plastic bags are free?
SIR - I wholeheartedly agree with the points raised in Mark Starr's letter and would like people to step back from the hysteria being generated currently on the issue of plastic bags and consider these facts.
Do people really think stores have been giving them free bags all these years? Companies pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to buy in these bags (millions in the case of large superstores) and they have always passed the cost on to customers via the price of their products.
So, the latest moves to charge for bags means we are paying twice! Certain prominent companies must be rubbing their hands with glee.
Also, all plastic bags are recyclable and can be re-used inumerable times. I agree that littering is a huge problem that needs to be addressed but abhor this opportunistic way of increasing profits.
J WILSON,
Worcester
8:02am Monday 24th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: Paul H Griffiths on 8:39am Mon 24 Mar 08
Wow. Talk about completely missing the point.
Wow. Talk about completely missing the point.
Posted by: Logik, worcester on 10:28am Mon 24 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Paul H Griffiths[/bold] wrote:
Wow. Talk about completely missing the point.[/quote] Come on Mr Liberal, enlighten us!
Paul H Griffiths wrote:
Wow. Talk about completely missing the point.
Come on Mr Liberal, enlighten us!
Posted by: andrew kirkham, malvern on 3:18pm Mon 24 Mar 08
I agree with Logic, explain yourself, Paul Griffiths . The point is that the whole issue of doing away with free plastic bags is founded on emotions nit realism . I found fascinating to learn that whilst the drop in bags given out in Irish stores following the imposition of a charge was about 90% the actual amount of plastic thrown away went up 4 fold. The problem was that people had to replace thethin plastic bags whicg were used for a multitude of housefold tasks by much heavier duty bin liners , rubbish sacks etc so the end result in Ireland has been a significant increase in eveb worse waste plastic which is far less environmental friendl in almost every way e.g production, transport ,disposal.
Come on Mr Griffiths or are you ignoring the facts again.
I agree with Logic, explain yourself, Paul Griffiths . The point is that the whole issue of doing away with free plastic bags is founded on emotions nit realism . I found fascinating to learn that whilst the drop in bags given out in Irish stores following the imposition of a charge was about 90% the actual amount of plastic thrown away went up 4 fold. The problem was that people had to replace thethin plastic bags whicg were used for a multitude of housefold tasks by much heavier duty bin liners , rubbish sacks etc so the end result in Ireland has been a significant increase in eveb worse waste plastic which is far less environmental friendl in almost every way e.g production, transport ,disposal.
Come on Mr Griffiths or are you ignoring the facts again.
Posted by: Paul H Griffiths on 12:06pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote]the actual amount of plastic thrown away went up 4 fold[/quote]
The source of this statistic, please.
the actual amount of plastic thrown away went up 4 fold
The source of this statistic, please.
Posted by: Paul H Griffiths on 12:14pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Never mind, I think I've found it.
Never mind, I think I've found it.
Posted by: Paul H Griffiths on 12:48pm Tue 25 Mar 08
There's some very dubious arguments from the Carrier Bag Consortium (who have a clear vested interest) but the apparent increase in sales of bin liners certainly gives me pause.
None of which affects my response to Mr Wilson's letter, however. Far from rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of increased profits, the manufacturers behind the CBC are worried about going out of business!
There's some very dubious arguments from the Carrier Bag Consortium (who have a clear vested interest) but the apparent increase in sales of bin liners certainly gives me pause.
None of which affects my response to Mr Wilson's letter, however. Far from rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of increased profits, the manufacturers behind the CBC are worried about going out of business!
Posted by: Logik, worcester on 2:06pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote]but the apparent increase in sales of bin liners certainly gives me pause[/quote]
...well at least that's something!
Paul, there are always vested interests dependent on which side of the argument you are. The governments is one of tax, tax and yet even more tax. Yummy!!
80% of plastic carrier bags are re-used by UK households according to the Department for Environment, Food
and Rural Affairs. They are used for things like carrying packed lunches up to collecting dog mess.
It stands to reason that if carrier bags are removed then we need to buy other plastic bags to serve our needs, including wrapping our rubbish in the wheelie bins.
but the apparent increase in sales of bin liners certainly gives me pause
...well at least that's something!
Paul, there are always vested interests dependent on which side of the argument you are. The governments is one of tax, tax and yet even more tax. Yummy!!
80% of plastic carrier bags are re-used by UK households according to the Department for Environment, Food
and Rural Affairs. They are used for things like carrying packed lunches up to collecting dog mess.
It stands to reason that if carrier bags are removed then we need to buy other plastic bags to serve our needs, including wrapping our rubbish in the wheelie bins.
Posted by: andrew kirkham, malvern on 3:50pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Paul,
It is the retailers who are rubbing their hands with glee if free plastic bags are done away with
a) they will save a lot of money because they will reduce the quantity of bags they need
b) those bags which they will supply will be at a price ( bound to include profit for the retailer
c) sales of other plastic items will soar bringing in profit
This is a win win situation for retailers I am surprised more havent followed M and S 's lead. M and S ,of course, are a profit driven organisation
Paul,
It is the retailers who are rubbing their hands with glee if free plastic bags are done away with
a) they will save a lot of money because they will reduce the quantity of bags they need
b) those bags which they will supply will be at a price ( bound to include profit for the retailer
c) sales of other plastic items will soar bringing in profit
This is a win win situation for retailers I am surprised more havent followed M and S 's lead. M and S ,of course, are a profit driven organisation
Posted by: Paul H Griffiths on 4:17pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Except that the CBC also claims that it has the support of some major retailers...
Except that the CBC also claims that it has the support of some major retailers...
Posted by: Logik, worcester on 5:00pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Waste advisors to the Government have warned against a tax on plastic bags on the basis that it could have a detrimental effect on the environment.
Experts have suggested that a ban or levy on plastic bags would actually lead to much greater volumes of plastic being used because people would need more bin liners and rubbish sacks.
Research by the Government-funded Waste Resources Action Programme (WRAP) found that a levy on plastic bags in Ireland only made matters worse.
Just looked at this as well, disgusting!
http://www.carrierba
gtax.com/downloads/S
unday%20Express%2010
%20feb.pdf
... a carrier looks even better now!
What you have not been told about the Irish bag tax.
One major high street retailer reports that where previously they sent just four pallets of plastic carriers to Ireland every week, they are now sending four 40ft containers of alternative bags which need wrapping in large amounts of plastic to keep them dry.
Another UK top retail chain reports that Paper bags have meant increased transport and storage costs. Also there is a higher incidence of "double bagging" (people using two bags instead of one) for strength. In total, more bags are being used since the switch (to paper)
At the end of the day even the governments own advisors think the bag tax is a bad idea. Still, what really matters is all that lovely tax to be made on the back of "saving the environment". As usual, they'll prey on the gullible.
Waste advisors to the Government have warned against a tax on plastic bags on the basis that it could have a detrimental effect on the environment.
Experts have suggested that a ban or levy on plastic bags would actually lead to much greater volumes of plastic being used because people would need more bin liners and rubbish sacks.
Research by the Government-funded Waste Resources Action Programme (WRAP) found that a levy on plastic bags in Ireland only made matters worse.
Just looked at this as well, disgusting!
http://www.carrierba
gtax.com/downloads/S
unday%20Express%2010
%20feb.pdf
... a carrier looks even better now!
What you have not been told about the Irish bag tax.
One major high street retailer reports that where previously they sent just four pallets of plastic carriers to Ireland every week, they are now sending four 40ft containers of alternative bags which need wrapping in large amounts of plastic to keep them dry.
Another UK top retail chain reports that Paper bags have meant increased transport and storage costs. Also there is a higher incidence of "double bagging" (people using two bags instead of one) for strength. In total, more bags are being used since the switch (to paper)
At the end of the day even the governments own advisors think the bag tax is a bad idea. Still, what really matters is all that lovely tax to be made on the back of "saving the environment". As usual, they'll prey on the gullible.
Posted by: Paul H Griffiths on 6:57pm Tue 25 Mar 08
Careful, Logik, remember the vested interests! Some of CBC's claims look over the top to me.
Careful, Logik, remember the vested interests! Some of CBC's claims look over the top to me.
Posted by: Logik, worcester on 8:04pm Tue 25 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Paul H Griffiths[/bold] wrote:
Careful, Logik, remember the vested interests! Some of CBC's claims look over the top to me.[/quote] Come on Paul, be a bit more specific and lose the political generalisations, you know, those assertions like yours above that actually say nothing.
Paul H Griffiths wrote:
Careful, Logik, remember the vested interests! Some of CBC's claims look over the top to me.
Come on Paul, be a bit more specific and lose the political generalisations, you know, those assertions like yours above that actually say nothing.
Posted by: Paul H Griffiths on 2:03pm Wed 26 Mar 08
I don't believe the shoplifting claims for a start.
I don't believe the shoplifting claims for a start.
Posted by: Logik, worcester on 10:55pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Was that it or were there any other real issues?
Was that it or were there any other real issues?
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